THE "GOLDEN" AGE OF ENTITLEMENT
My amazing mother was a single parent most of my childhood and still is. She worked her tail off for years trying to provide even the basic necessities for her three children - all to her mental and physical detriment. To this day her dedication and persistence amazes me.
As much as my mom continued to work, our needs were not met. And, like many single parents she sought government assistance. I grew up on food stamps and Medicaid and I didn't know any different. I know that my mother truly did her very most to provide, and did what was necessary to care for us.
We were not faced with such pertinent self-reliant decisions until I was actually pregnant with Twodles. Now the norm for my area is this: get pregnant, drive a couple minutes to the department of health and welfare, apply for Medicaid, WIC, and usually food stamps. It's not even a question really. This way of thinking is what we have come to know as "The 'Golden' Age of Entitlement." I overheard a girl once having a phone conversation in between classes that went something like this: "I'm so excited you are pregnant...I'll take you to get signed up for Medicaid!" She didn't say anything like "Do you have health insurance?" or "Have you started a new budget to be able to pay for medical bills and a baby?"
Now here's where I share what I believe. I know it may be different from what you believe, but I remind you that these are MY THOUGHTS AND WORRIES.
Mr. Medic and I made the decision that if we wanted to have children, we were going to be responsible for the cost of bringing them into the world and providing their needs throughout their life. We also feel that it would not be honest to accept certain forms of government assistance when at least one of us is perfectly capable of working to provide for our needs.
I believe that government aid, a "saving grace," is intended for unique situations including: single parent homes like my mother's, those with immense unforeseen or catastrophic medical emergencies, and those who simply cannot make ends meet "after all [they] can do." (The Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23) For instance, a couple CHOOSES to have children. They should plan, save, and budget to be prepared for the financial burden. They cannot, however, plan for the enormous unforeseen medical expenses that a less-than-healthy newborn may easily acquire. I also believe that it is dishonest to hide income by "gifting" family members your savings in order to qualify for government aid. For that matter, any act that is done with the intent to deceive is wrong.
As stated in The Family: A Proclamation to the World :
"By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed." (bold added)
First, I want to point out that it says that circumstances may necessitate a shift in responsibilities. This means that my mom, who had to work my whole life, is not condemned for doing so. Next, it states that fathers are responsible to provide the necessities of life. Finally, extended families should lend support when needed.
From this statement, along with many others* given by Prophets and church leaders, we (as a couple) believe that it is ultimately our responsibility to take care of the needs of our children. Is this an easy task? HEAVEN'S NO!
Now here is my constant worry, the battle in my own head, while we prepare for #2...
It is so hard, that some days I just wish I could do what "everyone else" is doing and march my fanny down to the welfare office and sign up for any aid available. Then my worries would be gone! I know ALL my worries would not be gone, but imagine not having to stress about paying for medical bills, food, or most of your housing. That's a lot less worrying!
Do I REALLY want to be in debt once again from having another child, when we JUST got #1 paid off? And then to have to watch my husband work so hard to repay those debts, all while feeling like a single mother most of the time?
I begin to feel guilty for questioning our original commitment to be self-reliant. I have to fight back feelings of resentment towards others around me who "take the easier road," some who have no clue what it's like to try to stick with a commitment - a commitment that you wholeheartedly believe is God's will. I feel guilty that my husband is really the one with all the weight on his shoulders, and I'm the one complaining. I want to help him. I want to relieve that burden, and the only way that seems realistic is to do something that we chose not to do so long ago. How dare I want to turn back or give up now!
Some may feel that it is utterly impossible to have children or provide for a family while being a student on a small income, but we are living proof that IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE...dang hard...BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE!
To really explain how we do it would be a novel. So in a nutshell, here's how:
Mr. Medic, bless him, I could cry just writing about his sacrifices...goes to bed so early that I put both "my boys" to bed at the same time, just so he can wake up almost every morning between 4 and 5 a.m. to study. This enables him to receive scholarships every semester he goes to school. Then while taking classes full-time, he spends most every other waking moment working any job he can. There have been semesters when he has held three jobs at one time. Sounds fun right? Most of the time not so much. I will say that I cannot remember a single utterance about the situation being unfair coming from Mr. Medic's mouth. I usually take care of that.
As stated in The Family: A Proclamation to the World :
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| First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints at time of publishing of Proclamation. |
First, I want to point out that it says that circumstances may necessitate a shift in responsibilities. This means that my mom, who had to work my whole life, is not condemned for doing so. Next, it states that fathers are responsible to provide the necessities of life. Finally, extended families should lend support when needed.
From this statement, along with many others* given by Prophets and church leaders, we (as a couple) believe that it is ultimately our responsibility to take care of the needs of our children. Is this an easy task? HEAVEN'S NO!
It is so hard, that some days I just wish I could do what "everyone else" is doing and march my fanny down to the welfare office and sign up for any aid available. Then my worries would be gone! I know ALL my worries would not be gone, but imagine not having to stress about paying for medical bills, food, or most of your housing. That's a lot less worrying!
Do I REALLY want to be in debt once again from having another child, when we JUST got #1 paid off? And then to have to watch my husband work so hard to repay those debts, all while feeling like a single mother most of the time?
I begin to feel guilty for questioning our original commitment to be self-reliant. I have to fight back feelings of resentment towards others around me who "take the easier road," some who have no clue what it's like to try to stick with a commitment - a commitment that you wholeheartedly believe is God's will. I feel guilty that my husband is really the one with all the weight on his shoulders, and I'm the one complaining. I want to help him. I want to relieve that burden, and the only way that seems realistic is to do something that we chose not to do so long ago. How dare I want to turn back or give up now!
Some may feel that it is utterly impossible to have children or provide for a family while being a student on a small income, but we are living proof that IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE...dang hard...BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE!
To really explain how we do it would be a novel. So in a nutshell, here's how:
Mr. Medic, bless him, I could cry just writing about his sacrifices...goes to bed so early that I put both "my boys" to bed at the same time, just so he can wake up almost every morning between 4 and 5 a.m. to study. This enables him to receive scholarships every semester he goes to school. Then while taking classes full-time, he spends most every other waking moment working any job he can. There have been semesters when he has held three jobs at one time. Sounds fun right? Most of the time not so much. I will say that I cannot remember a single utterance about the situation being unfair coming from Mr. Medic's mouth. I usually take care of that.
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| Tired Paramedic Daddy |
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| " BYU-I Paramedic of the Year" |
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| Hot Firefighter Husband |
We also live on financial aid and the occasional student loan. We choose a student loan over government assistance because we are held responsible to repay it.
The things that I personally do to help make ends meet:
2. Keep a tight budget. (Man, that takes so much time and effort. Plus I'm not good at math!)
3. Couponing...it really can save you a lot of money!
When all is said and done I see this face...
and get to witness sweet moments like this...
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| Twodles and Daddy looking for a lost car |
It makes everything so much more bearable and VERY worth all my struggles and moments of doubt!
DISCLAIMER: I have many acquaintances and close friends who have chosen a different way, who probably don't feel the same as I do. AND THAT'S OKAY! I just need a place to be honest. I need a place where my thoughts may be considered by others. I need a place where others can share their thoughts as well, and hopefully help me to be more sympathetic to those that have chosen to take "the easier road."
*applicable information begins around paragraph 21/22 and on.
Chandee you are amazing and I love reading your posts. I will admit that we are on food stamps, it was a very hard decision and took a lot of prayer before we decided we need to get on food stamps because Cairo was not getting enough to eat. But on the flip side we are saving money so we can get off of food stamps very soon. I hate not paying for my own food. I am so thankful that we are getting to the point where we will be able to be self reliant. Please do not be afraid to post things that not everyone will agree with. You are such an example to me. Thank you so much.
ReplyDeleteChandee- I think this was a great article you wrote! I agree with your thoughts and am glad you put it out there. You're such a supportive wife for sticking to the commitment you made, while trying to lighten the load placed on your husband's shoulders. I also admire your Mom, or any single mother trying to make ends meet. I'm sure you learned a lot from her.
ReplyDelete-Brendi
Message received from Terra H:
ReplyDelete"I love all your posts. I love how they give your point of view. I have to admit that my husband and I are on wic. It took me a log time to reach out for help, because like you, we wanted to do it on our own. My husband works at 4am until the time he goes to class in the evening, comes home to eat and then stays in his hiding whole (the desk area) to study until bed to get his 4-5 hours of sleep just to get up and do it all over again. I love him more everyday for doing this for our family. I stay home to save money for day care and like you, I coupon! We also get student loans, but sometimes it's just not enough. The wic just helps us out. Some people assume that if you get government assistance that you must want to take the "easy way" and not take responsibility for your family. I myself am guilty of stereotyping people on these government programs. I know people who abuse the system and it makes my family look bad for getting this help. I can not wait for the day that I can walk into the wic office and say "we no longer need this help!". These systems are there for people with unforeseen circumstances and/or families who are trying to better their life. It angers me that there are people out there who feel that they should get things for free just because."
I think you forgot some of your list of how you "do it"
ReplyDelete4. have nearby family and friends for support and free baby sitting
5. live in an area with a very low cost of living
6. attend a school that is less than 1/3 the cost of most universities
i am no good at commenting on blogs. seriously i tried for probably a little too long, so i give up now. but i did want to say i'm still your friend and didn't find your post offensive. i think you guys are a great example and you gave some good insight about why you chose what you did.
ReplyDeleteI will have to admit when we got pregnant with Sophie- I seriously had NO idea about Medicaid/WIC, etc. In fact, when I think back, I was pretty naive about the whole baby planning thing!:0) Tyson and I were pretty well planning on just using the Student Insurance, and paying for the baby ourselves-even if it meant paying forever! BUT- when we did find out about these programs,we were a little apprehensive at first. I had been working while Tyson was going to school, and had knew it was only going to be temporary. So, we decided we would keep our student insurance and add Medicaid- and THANKFULLY we did. Mainly because the care and appts. leading up to and after the arrival of Sophie was NOT cheap! In our circumstance, it really was the best thing. It bothered Tyson that we were on Medicaid and WIC at first and did NOT want to do foodstamps, but after that experience, it really saved us. I don't think programs like that should be abused either, but I also think some people really do need the help. Again- It all comes down to "entitlement" like you said. We didn't feel like we were entitled to use these programs, but they did help us A LOT with our circumstance. We definitely did a lot better planning with this next baby, because we have an actual income and have a plan to make payments!I'm glad you expressed your opinion! It's okay to feel that way!:)
ReplyDelete@ Madison- Hang in there and don't lose sight of your goal of self-reliance.
ReplyDelete@ Brendi- I really have learned so much from my sweet Momma B!
@ Terra H. - It's good to know that people can be humble enough to ask for help after they've done all they can. WIC is a program that benefits not only the person but the gvt in the long run. It provides healthy foods at vital times of life to PREVENT future illness and diseases like obesity and diabetes.
@Kristina- YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT...I did forget those things. And I would have to add #7 We pay our tithing. #8 We have above average health insurance through our school with a FAMILY deductible of $1500. Hence the reason I have strung out my 4 year degree into almost 10 years (with an almost 2 year hiatus for a mission) in order to keep the insurance.
When we were at BYUI they did not offer family or maternity insurance.
DeleteThey have always had maternity and dependent coverage since we got married. Maternity is just not that great if your not an actual student (as in your spouse is but you aren't) The only change that has been made recently for dependents is a family deductible, instead of every person having a $750 deductible, its a combined $1500.
Delete@ the Dustins- Someone else pointed out to me your same comment about combining your own insurance with Medicaid. That its still doing your part and then making up for what you can't. And although you did not share you entire circumstance with having cute little Sophie, I would consider that as unforeseen medical emergencies.
ReplyDeleteLike you I hope with the experience of having one child we can do even better planning with this next one. For one thing, I was an idiot and only paid the minimum monthly payment to the OB and ended up paying that FOREVER with our first. Now for #2, we are paying the most we can per month in order to have at least the OB portion paid by the time we have it.
I was a government assistance baby and my husband was not. His dad was working full time and going to school full time paying for their 4 kids. we've always been in agreement that if we need help we'll get it, but he's told me that I'm the one that's going to have to say when that is. We have been trying for kids since we got married, maybe foolishly, but we have not been blessed with them yet. It had taken a while, but we finally decided to look at it not as we weren't going to have kids, but as a time to get our finances cleaned up. And since starting that thinking that way we have been much happier and managed to find/make money we never expected to get our lives better. I feel confident that this childless time has been given to if for a reason now to be better, not just a trial that brought many tears. There have been many months recently especially that I thought for sure I was pregnant and the day I find out I'm not is hard, but then I pay a big bill and feel grateful that I have at least one more month to clean up the mes I made in my single days!
ReplyDeleteAnd can you set up mobile viewing on your blog, I only have my phone to read on so it's make it a lot easier!! Thanks!!!
I completely agree. While I agree those programs are there for people in true need, I do not think you should "just get pregnant" so you can keep qualifying for all said programs.
ReplyDeleteWe are on WIC currently, something that was a little hard to do. But after living on unemployment for months and job search after job search with nothing, that is what we needed to do, and it has been a blessing. We will not be on it for long; these programs (in my mind) are a temporary solution for our situation.
I have a friend that just got on food stamps. Is it helpful for them? Yes. However, I do not think now that you don't need to pay for your own food, that you should live a life of luxury.
@Beth- Good for you for finding a way to cope with your current situation. Sometimes all it takes is a change in your point of view or attitude to make things more bearable. I sure know I need to do that myself sometimes to get back on track. I bet it feels so satisfying to be in control of your finances, and them not being in control of you. I will work on the mobile viewing, thanks for the heads up!
ReplyDelete@Rachel- What I think is really sad is that your sweet hubby sacrificed his life in the military and your STILL going without. Sounds like good repayment...NOT! Does the military offer job placement help or anything? I really know nothing about that sort of stuff. The idea of those programs being temporary like you said, is very similar to the church welfare system, and I think it does a much better job of getting people back on their feet and helping themselves again quick. I think your last statement is very interesting. It only makes my doubts about not keeping our commitment all that more difficult. Some people who get gvt, help then have the "extra" money to drive really nice cars, have flat screen TV's, the latest mobile devices etc. If you're getting help it would seem more productive to remain frugal with what money you do have and use it as a way to save and get back to where you want to be.
Chan, I loved reading this post and I don't find it offensive in anyway.. What is funny my sister and I found ourselves talking about the same thing the other day. I am sadden to say that I use government assistance, but it's not something that I choose for myself. Both Vincent and I work, however when I was put on bedrest things changed. Not only did I get put on bedrest but work also seemed to slow down for Vincent, but we were still able to skirt by. In June we did however have some legal troubles (that we are still currently dealing with), and then in July I was fired from my place of employment (while on maternity leave mind you). Because Vincent is self employed we relyed heavily on my health insurance and income, and I had planned on returning to work in August. That was no longer an option and I would need to find other work, while dealing with a toddler and newborn. Vincent and I spoke with our Bishop and after much thought and prayer it was decided that we needed help. Filling out the paperwork for foodstamps and medicad was a real downer for me, as I had always prided myself on doing things and providing for myself. I am looking forward to the day when I no longer need to rely on the government for help, but I am grateful they were there when I needed it.
ReplyDeleteYou pretty much hit the nail on the head when you said "entitlement". There used to be a time when being on Welfare and Government assistance was shameful and something that wasn't a common practice. We now have this society that belives the government should pay for everything and pick up the slack for their lack of planning. I understand that sometimes hard times hit, it's bound to happen. When I watched this video I was mad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavou_SEj1E) because it made me realize how people treat a system that was set up to help people.
Well I already knew you felt this way so my feelings about our friendship have neither increased or decreased :) My opinion is...I really don't know. I think it is such an individual decision for each person or family. Who am I to say that someone is deserving or not, able or not. When we look at people's needs it's easy to judge but you never know what is going on behind closed doors. Your family has been extremely blessed to have a husband that is physically and mentally willing and able to do all that he has been able to. Maybe that is why you felt for your family you were not going to receive any assistance. In our situation, for our family, we have been on and off different programs in the past. When things get better we get off what we can and provide for that we are able. But there have been times we needed help. We live in a beautiful home that we rent from our parents. We were so blessed for that opportunity. But if you didnt know us you would never know that almost every piece of furniture we own has been handed down to us from older siblings or grandparents. That pretty much every stitch of clothing my kids wear (with the exception for the 5 pieces I bought this weekend:) is hand me down. You would never know just by looking at us that until just recently we were paying over $500 a month for Ty's private health insurance (and that doesnt count the cost of other health costs). I'm just using this as an example. I do think people take advantage and have even felt sad myself that we have had to use the assistance of others. I guess I feel if you are working hard, and doing all that you feel YOU can do hopefully it will only be a temporary situation. Working hard and being self reliant makes you feel good and empowered and that is one thing that is dangerous about these programs. Hopefully, people don't start feeling entitled but instead grateful and use these programs wisely.
ReplyDeleteOh and forgot to mention that I think what your family doing is a great example of hard work and sacrifice! You will be better off because of it. What a blessing it is!
ReplyDeleteChandee, well done! Life is such a big IF, and sometimes even with complete planning life with throw a curveball at you that messes it all up. I had a bad attitude towards those who received government assistance: I hated getting stuck behind the WIC people at the grocery store! When we decided to try getting pregnant, I got insurance with a good maternity deductible. The first appointment we had at the doctor's including an ultrasound. Surprise surprise, there were TWO little babes instead of one. All of a sudden our expected doctor bill jumped twice the amount. We didn't know how we were going to pay the bills on top of my husband going to school. I was the only income and that would stop once I had our twins. We decided we needed to apply for Medicaid, and use that as a secondary insurance, after my health insurance being the primary. After the kids were born and we realized Andrew's salary the first few months after graduation would be minimal, I applied for WIC. That was a hard pill to swallow, as now I'm the one holding the lines up with our checks. I hate receiving WIC for myself, but it has helped us SO much with maintaining a food supply for the twins. I exclusively breastfeed them, but during their major growth spurts I struggled to maintain my supply. WIC helped supply the formual they needed until I could adjust to their needs. As soon as they hit a year old, I fully intend to cancel WIC, cancel their Medicaid, and get on a family insurance policy with Andrew's new job postion. When used right, government programs are a blessing, often a lifesaver! We've used them with a projected "end date" in mind, and a plan of action for when we are off them.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I look to you and your husband for an example when we do get off our programs! You are making great sacrifices, not just your husbandd, whether you realize it or not. Being a mother and doing all that you can at home is not an easy job, and you're doing it wonderfully! I complain a lot to Andrew about different circumstances, then I read others' blogs or talk to friends and realize I don't have it so bad. Thank you for being so honest with your feelings and reaching out to everyone through your blog. I look forward to reading your blog! :)
ReplyDelete@ Vince and Denise- I will have to watch that link. Thanks
ReplyDelete@ Maria- You so right that being self reliant is so empowering! When we paid our last bill for #1 I wanted to have a celebration. I felt like we conquered one of the biggest obstacles in our marriage to that point. It made me feel like I could do ANYTHING! It's hard sometimes, I guess, to not let silly pregnant hormones throw me off and forget my goals and forget that WE'VE ALREADY DONE IT ONCE BEFORE AND WE CAN DO IT AGAIN!
Thanks for all the encouragement everyone. I have found it helpful to read your personal responses, and am glad to know that there are people who set good parameters to using gvt assistance. I hope that even if some do not agree with me they will be able to share their true feelings and opinions. And that those who do read and comment can get some good feedback from EVERYONE who is posting.
Chandee, I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on these issues, because making any decision involving family is not easy. With Hailee, we had the school insurance, lots of debt and $250 to our names while living paycheck to paycheck. We prayerfully applied to Medicaid and WIC. Again, we did the same thing with McKenzie. Now, being pregnant a third time we found ourselves with a choice to make. Since I became an online student I lost my student heath insurance. So now we shell out $200 a month for private insurance for our whole family. And to be honest, I don't' know where this money is going to come from. Harris is already working 40 hours a week and going to school full time that at times I feel like a single mom. WIC has been a great source when we NEED it. There have been better months than others so the months we can go with out using WIC checks, we do.
ReplyDeleteLike you, my mother was single mother working 50+ hours a week just to make ends meet, and most of the time they didn't. She always paid her tithing but I remember how bad it got. While my mother didn't use government aid, she did implore the help of our Bishop and was able to get the things we needed from the Bishop's storehouse. My mother felt that at least this way, she could pay back her debt with the time she volunteered there, and by paying extra with her tithing. This was an amazing example to me, but I remember how I felt as a child during all this, and I don't want my children growing up thinking that they have to choose what meals to eat at just to make it last longer. I think that as long as we invite the Lord into our decisions for the good of the family, we can be okay.
Keep up all the wonderful blogs Chandee... You are definitly giving us food for thought.
I must clarify too that from Mr Medics pics it could look like we are rollin' in the dough, and of course if that really was the case we could better make ends meet. Ironically being a paramedic/firefighter is one of the lowest paying jobs he's had. Because lets face it he's a pee-on and only gets paid IF he gets a call on one of the handful of shifts he gets each month. Not steady income AT ALL. Thankfully he recently got a job as a Pharmacy Tech with Kmart, passed the test, and we have a bit more steady income.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing! I am on similar terms as you too. I know of many people that like to abuse the system in any and all possible ways (gov housing, wic, food stamps, unemployment, the whole works!) and it just makes me feel so sad inside for them. Yet on other hands I know that some people just need it and can't seem to work around it any other way. We did use medicad for our first, but only after using school insurance too, and we are doing everything we possibly can to avoid getting on food stamps or wic. What has really helped us to be self reliant in those ways is we cook a lot from our food storage (beans, rice, wheat, etc) which are pretty healthy anyway, and in the bulk it can in many ways be much cheaper to use for food anyway. I also make a lot of food from scratch (breads, snack items, etc) there are very few things that we buy pre-made which I think is a lot cheaper as well. And we also do bountiful baskets for all our produce. It really does take a lot of work to be self reliant, but is completely worth it in the long run, brings peace and satisfaction that we are doing the very best that we can! Then also to help with costs for our little girl we do cloth diapers so we don't have to worry as much about the diaper bill building up (especially since we were able to get the diapers for free through bonus features at Michael's work). And nursing has helped a ton as well, I feel so blessed that I was able to nurse my little girl the whole first year so we didn't have to worry about formula costs (which I know can be INSANELY expensive!) It's hard, but it is very possible to be self reliant!
ReplyDelete-Whitney Jacob (my blogger is being weird and won't let me sign in)
This is such a great article. I really believe that we live in a world full of entitled people, and so many people fully abuse government assistance. When Eric and I got married, like I mentioned after your last post, we planned on waiting 2 years to have kids. Heavenly Father saw our life differently and I was pregnant 2 months later. My seasonal employment at Walmart ended when school started in January. Eric's new job as a pizza delivery driver got interrupted when I caught his car on fire on his birthday. We were really blessed to already be living in subsidized housing, (another one of those unplanned blessings from a loving Heavenly Father) and Eric good grades got him scholarships and a smart grant. When it came time for us to make a decision about government assistance we made the hard choice to apply. We looked at it like these programs are put in place to help people in need until they can do it themselves. We had faith that once we got through this hard time that Heavenly Father would help us to be self-reliant, and that we would eventually be giving back all that we were given. By getting the assistance we were able to focus on school and our family and put enough into savings to get us set for when we graduated.
ReplyDeleteWe stuck to our plan, and when Eric graduated and was blessed with a good job we moved and quit all assistance. I'm not going to lie, there was a major shock having to look at food prices and real rent and medical bills for the first time in our married life, but we were very blessed and it wasn't a problem. Eric's job didn't work out like we planned, though, and we moved back to Idaho. We had some savings and Eric got a great job, and we were able to buy a house. And then we did the necessary renovations to our house so we could live here. And we had a miscarriage. And, well, “real” life happened. We still aren't used to the realities of life and bills. Now, 20 weeks pregnant, with the doctor bill starting and our $400 a month for heat we are looking for ways to make ends meet. Eric works 40hrs and he has 2 businesses he runs from home that take all the rest of his time, usually until 2am.
We are very frugal shoppers, though I don't have the patience or frame of mind to coupon. I can name everything in our house that we have bought new. So the question for us has come up again, do we need assistance? I even stopped by and picked up the paperwork. And that day Heavenly Father struck again, and Eric was given a small raise at work, just enough to cover what we were short. And I was blessed with an opportunity to start working from home to help with the "real" life surprises.
I guess my point through that long story is that Heavenly Father knows each of our situations in ways that we can't even begin to understand, and He knows our goals and helps in ways we can't know to meet those goals. Now, with Heavenly Father's blessings and this great discussion, we don't need government assistance this time around. Thanks for the encouraging and inspiring article that helped me to stick to a difficult goal!
@ Whitney- Thanks for the other ideas of saving money and making ends meet a little better. I'm not the greatest baker/cook in the world, but I have ventured into canning and a few other things that can save money. The ones you mentioned are definitely some to look into.
ReplyDelete@Katie- You bring up another good point that I forgot to add to my list of ways we make things work: FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. If we truly have faith we will NEVER be left to fend for ourselves. Keep plugging through your time of transition into a new way of life. Remind yourself of your goals and hang on for the ride of a lifetime!
I think you guys are amazing. you have done great and are hard workers and recieve so many blessings. However, i am a strong believer in following promptings of the spirit and acting on faith. scott and i felt prompted to start our family when we had no money for a baby. if we would have waited and not acted we would probably not have kids for 15 years hahah. so in our case we acted, scott worked 2 jobs, got great grades did school and we got pregnant, but would not have enough money for a baby and so did government help. we feel it is there for us, and we will not do it for our other children because we will have stable jobs. we are so grateful for it and the blessing it did to help us bring our baby girl into the world. we just acted on faith, even though the idea of being on welfare has never been something i wanted to do. its not something i am proud of our encourage others to do, but it worked for us, and our family, just like what you do works for yours. we all do the best we can to get by even though looking at other peoples lifes its easy to pick at maybe they are doing the best they personally can. thanks chandee its a great post, and your amazing.
ReplyDeleteYou've got the right idea, it really isn't worthwhile in any way to compare our own lives with anyone else's. I think what's most important is to not allow fear and doubt get the best of you and keep you from accomplishing a goal. Its so easy for me to forget that the Lord has always helped us achieve our goals.
DeleteTo quote President Benson in 1977:
ReplyDelete"Occasionally, we receive questions as to the propriety of Church members receiving government assistance instead of Church assistance. Let me restate what is a fundamental principle. Individuals, to the extent possible, should provide for their own needs. Where the individual is unable to care for himself, his family should assist. Where the family is not able to provide, the Church should render assistance, not the government. We accept the basic principle that “though the people support the government, the government should not support the people."
Latter-day Saints should not receive unearned welfare assistance from local or national agencies. This includes food stamps. Priesthood and Relief Society leaders should urge members to accept the Church welfare program and earn through the program that which they need, even though they may receive less food and money. By doing so, members will be spiritually strengthened, and they will maintain their dignity and self-respect." (http://lds.org/ensign/1977/05/ministering-to-needs-through-the-lords-storehouse-system?lang=eng)
In case one might think the 1977 counsel is out of date, this order (self, family, church, not government) is still supported today as voiced by President Hinckley:
"Those in need are expected to do all they can to provide for themselves. Then families are expected to assist in taking care of their less-fortunate members. And then the resources of the Church are made available." (Gordon B. Hinckley, "I Was an Hungred, and Ye Gave Me Meat, Ensign," May 2004, 57)
And if people have "unfriended" you based on this post, don't take it to heart; there have been many who have left the church because the welfare program didn't hand-out like the government.
I hadn't stumbled upon these particular quotes yet. Thanks
DeleteI have some great prophetic quotes about the evils of birth control (from the same time frame)...if anyone is interested ;)
DeleteI’ve been thinking about this post all day. It’s a complicated issue, and I can see why it took you so long to post. It is definitely worth evaluating and getting people to think about it. Entitlement is a huge issue for our generation particularly. I’ve talked to some that find it frustrating to be openly categorized as the ones that feel entitled, or are accused of taking the easy way. I even know of one father that’s greatest fear is not providing, and would be hurt that his full time job is still not enough to be considered a good provider. It kind of puts everyone on the defense. Even reading the comments I noticed that people agree that abusing the system is wrong, but there are reasons for their situation and why they use assistance. I am the same way. The truth is none of these situations are easy, and there are tough decisions to be made for some of us. I know how you feel. I considered my situation prayerfully and after much debate my husband and I received assistance for the birth of our children. It was hard, but once we decided to apply I felt peace. Another point, I can’t help but think about is the similarity between financial aid and Medicaid (I like that they both end in aid). The paperwork is VERY similar. In our culture it is acceptable to apply for government aid for help to pay for school if we can’t afford it, but not the birth of children…priorities?! Why is financial aid acceptable, but a lot of us feel a great deal of shame receiving help to bring children into the world. This isn’t our reasoning for applying, but I think about it. Growing up we went hungry regularly and even without electricity. There were many nights that my brothers and I huddled together to stay warm because we had no heat source. My father would not apply for aid, and his family was not in a situation to help. This same man, like many that feel this way, has encouraged me to apply for aid in school. I don’t get why helping your financial future for school is ok, while for other things is not.
ReplyDeleteI have felt frustrated seeing people receive free rent, energy assistance, and eating like kings off of food stamps, which leaves all their income open for whatever they want...or so it seems. I am guilty of the feelings of resentment toward those that are taking what seems to be an easier way, when I am doing what I feel to be right. I don’t know what their situations are, or what their capacities are. It makes me think of the line of a hymn “In the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can’t see.” The conclusion I’ve come to is that I don’t have to judge for anyone but my family, and it’s wonderful!
One fundamental gospel principle that goes along with this is the ability to ask for help. A lot of the ideas wrapped up in self-reliance come back to a common misreading of 2 nephi 25:23, "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." We Mormons get to thinking that we can save ourselves and that Jesus provides the tiniest extra little umph we need to get to heaven. Which is false. We are all absolutely and irrevocably unable to enter heaven. No matter what we do. We need Christ no matter how hard we work. And this reading feeds into this idea you are talking about Chandee, that we are responsible for "saving ourselves" in terms providing our own food and housing and all that. This isn't the whole story. We are fundamentally incapable of providing ourselves we our own salvation. We need Christ, and we need to ask for help. Learning to ask for help is not shameful, but a fundamental principle of our life here on earth. Are there those that take advantage of governmentally provided help? Yes. But not all of us are. We have asked for help, and we have recognized that we can't do it alone. There is no shame in that, and your opinion will not shame me. I trust in Christ, and I trust in the help that is available to me.
ReplyDeleteOn top of that, I applaud Nick for working three jobs. But I like to be with my family, and if I can accept help from the government, help that I will repay by paying my taxes in years to come, so that I don't have to kill myself working so much my wife feels like a single parent, then I will gladly accept that help.
I would say its hard to argue with a prophet, as Amanda posted a couple quotes above. I know that I cannot do anything without the Lord, and through my faith in Him, not myself, I am able to be reassured that we CAN AND SHOULD do what we are doing. I also ask for help...I ask for help to be strong to do this hard thing. I ask for help to be given knowledge of new ideas on how to save money and be more frugal. I ask for patience to bear this challenging time, etc. To your comment of liking to be with your family, my husband certainly DOES like being with his family too! He sacrifices in that area as well to make sure we get the time that we need. Many times he has cut studying short to help me at home, or play with our son, or any number of things. He spends time with us knowing full well he will have to make up for that lost studying time elsewhere. I would also argue that I do not believe ANY woman, your sweet wife included, has NEVER felt like they were parenting alone!
DeleteSteven, I love your opinion. I feel the same way. I worked so much when my son was first born that i truly regret it still. now i work less than parttime(as a caregiver, which we could do without the income and be a little more strapped for cash but i love it and im serving the elderly) my hubby works fulltime and i love having him home. we have happy lives and the normal stresses of daily life get to us at times, why make our lives unhappy with stressing unnecessarily. my husband is a student too and that brings stress and more time that he is not home. we accept the help. i like your point of view and boldness.
DeleteHa, this is quite a discussion!! I am surprised so many are offended by what you wrote rather than seeing it as a personal choice. I have been on both sides of this. I remember nothing remarkable about being on government assistance, other than having way more delicious food than we needed. But once we took the plunge and decided to provide for ourselves even though we didn't know how it would happen, we unknowingly opened the door for miracles! Those years we spent scraping by, unable to afford milk and eggs many times, were amazing and full of experiences that shouted " the Lord is aware of you." When we went off government assistance, we gave the Lord a chance to take over and provide for us. I know you have has that experience as well. I think you should write a Post about that. No one can argue with that! I will even guest post for you if you need extra support!!!
ReplyDeleteI posted on facebook but think I will post here as well. One thing we did was to keep our primary insurance and get mediciad as a secondary. we still had to pay our premuims and someother expensive but medicaid helped with the large balance. As someone who has had MAJOR medical issues with myself and pretty much my entire family, Medicaid has been a HUGE blessing, we still have mass amounts of medical debt however if it weren't for the medicaid it would be millions, literally, close to millions. As for what the Prophet said, no I'm not argueing with what he said it is true and valid, however, living in a small Rural town, our Church storehouse is three hours away and they aren't able to regular welfare orders, so our stake has encouraged those in need to do what is best for their families after careful consideration and prayer. It is a personal choice, no one should get upset with your opinion. it is just that YOUR Opinion. I think that a big difference for alot of Church members on assistance is the fact that we are using it to help us get on our feet, through a tough time not to help us remain off of our feet. Having been there I tell you it is a GREAT day when you get off of those programs! But they truely Saved our lives and finances...
ReplyDeleteChandee- I am so proud of you girl! You know that I agree with you 100%, but we have had this discussion before. Just remember, people CHOOSE to be angry or get offended! We don't make them angry. I agree that there are circumstances when outside help is needed and that is what it is there for. However I am sooooooo sick of being at walmart and seeing all these fancy moms dressed in expensive clothes and such, using food stamps! One story that makes me sooooo mad is one time John and I were at the Ammon walmart and this lady in front of us had 3 overweight boys under the age of 10 with her. They bought so much CRAP like chocolate milk, ice cream, donuts......I looked and there was not 1 fruit or vegetable! Well, she said to her boys " go pick out a soda, (the individual $1.75 ones) pepsi products are to the left and coke productsare to the left. Well her last purchase was a 24 pack of beer. Do you want to know what her total was for about $300 worth of groceries??????? $18!!!! Yup thats right she had to pay for the beer :( poor her. I was soooooooooooo mad because John and I just got a few essentials like milk and bread and things of that nature and the cheapest printer they had so that we could print of school stuff. Our total came to over $100. Now tell me how is it fair that my husband slaves away and goes to school and these people probably collect unemployment! The problem really is with the government, they make it too easy for people to beat and abuse the system. Why would that husband want to go out and work when he can sit home on his butt all day and collect more money than if he was working a minimum wage job? It is too tempting for people to just stay on assistance. I know a family that has 6 kids and they have flat out said, " well, we have to have them all before we can actually afford to pay for them." This infuriates me! They have these babies for free and then get money every year for them and they get over $800 in food stamps, and don't forget they live in a nice house with stainless steel appliances because he got a fat pay check from being in the national guard when he was younger. Seriously though people need to be responsible for who they bring into the world. Medicaid is for emergencies and not the "oops I got pregnant" emergency it is for serious medical problems. We waited to have Jackson until we had good insurance because we knew he would be a high risk pregancy. It was hard to watch other people have kids and us not. The other day a bill came in the mail for $27,000 and luckily we had met our out of pocket so it was covered but those are the cases that if medicaid needs to be used it should. The other day I was at the pediaricians office and they were shocked that I had insurance! How sad is that, because everyone else doesn't. My husand works his butt off so that we can have good insurance and I am sooooo thankful for it! This topic is super debatable and everyone can have their own opinion, that's just mine. I am just really really proud of you guys and think that you are doing such a wonderful job. I know how hard Nick works and studies and I know it will pay off when he is the TOP thoracic surgeon in the country!!!! LOVE YOU!
ReplyDeleteBoth the hubby and I come from the ghetto urban broken down cities of America (gasp!) where EVERYONE takes advantage of any and all government assistance. It is really sad how people will cheat the system and not report things or try to hide things like income and such so that they can get more and more. It makes me angry that while these people have the support of family (safety nets) and can actually afford life without the help. I have family that sell their foodstamps. sad. They seriously need to start drug testing in places like that where it is more likely they are using drugs while being on assistance (making them horrible parents too!) again I know all too well and way too many people that take advantage. My mom was a single mother too, but she did take advantage of the system because she was a drug addict most of her life. Back where we're from being on government assistance is a way of life, a lot of people in poverty are lazy and not having limits and more strict regulations on it makes them take it for granted and continue to feel entitled to it. that being said, We do accept government assistance (foodstamps, wic & medicaid) We are totally honest about it and report everything. The difference I feel is, as opposed to a lot of people in rexburg, we have no safety nets, no family support on either side, we do it all on our own but we do accept help where it is NEEDED & offered. But we give back & help others and serve and realize what a blessing it is. I agree that being in rexburg makes it easier to support yourself completely. with family and friends and a cheap college/cost of living, that makes it 10x easier. The rules here place limitations on eligibility if you are a student ( you have to work at least 20 hours a week...) things like that make it so you don't have the chance to take advantage. i went to apply for medicaid the other day and i noticed something on the app that i thought was beneficial to the system. they asked if you have no income at all, you have to provide how you make ends meet and proof too. i thought that was awesome. i don't know if it has always been like that. Another thing i see people do here and other places too is applying for subsidized housing when they probably don't need it. Friends and family have asked us why haven't we applied for housing assistance. it because we do not need it. they honestly see it as entitlement, it pisses me off. we don't make a lot but we make enough to support ourselves and pay our bills. no one has ever paid any of our bills. I am proud of that. hubby works full-time, i work part-time, we can afford it.. for the extra things like less than half of our groceries and my pregnancy and my little guys health we get $200 in ebt, a few checks from wic and medicaid for pregnancy and my little guy. for things other than pregnancy hubby and I go to the clinics in st anthony. little guy goes to his doctor in town. For my little guy i see medicaid as absolutely necessary, i don't ever want to hesitate to take him to the er just because i know its hard to afford it. know i have that coverage makes me feel at ease for my son. for hubbs and i we have to be pretty much dying! before i did medicaid, i had a miscarriage, i couldn't even go to the er because i couldn't afford it, so i waited until the Dr opened the next day. if i had coverage it could have been different(ya never know.). it is something i rely on but in no way take advantage of. For foodstamps and wic, I really try to build our storage and buy healthy things. most of the money goes to fruits and veggies (that stuff is expensive!) and meat. I do bountiful baskets because the FS don't cover us past the 15 of the month! it helps but trust me, my groceries come out of my pocket too.
ReplyDeleteBasically what it comes down to is for my, I am doing what I feel is necessary for my family, my husband works his butt off and I do too but help is there and we accept it gratefully and honestly do what we are supposed to. I don't know how long we'll need the help but if it happens to be years, then so be it. I feel we are as self reliant as can be right now, with more practice I'll get better. remember my garden?! and making everything from scratch, homemade, freezing, dehydrating, juicing, i learn as i get older and that i feel is self reliant too. We are working to get out of debt (this March we're done! go us!)that I accumulated as soon as i turn 18 (yikes!) We are also taxpayers just like those complaining that taxpayers pay for lazy people on welfare. BTW, its totally not the "easy way" for us. its just the necessary thing to do.
ReplyDeleteWay to go for not taking the same road some of your family members did. It's way to easy to conform to what you "know" or grew up with, and a lot more empowering to make a change for your future posterity. Your little man is gonna be all the better for it! He will know the meaning of hard work and sacrifice! I bet you are gaining a lot of valuable knowledge by learning lots of different self-reliant skills. I would love to hear some of your tips and tricks on making ends meet the best way you know how. Do you have a blog? If not I would love to have you guest post on some of your ideas!
DeleteI truly know that most people don't have things any "easier" than me. I just think its human nature to FEEL that way every once in a while. So thank you for sharing your experiences and helping me to see everyone has a tough time making ends meet!
DeleteI'm Molly Mormon in the making yo! lol! I love learning all those homemaking skills that i didnt grow up with. its all so fascinating to me. I am in no way perfect with my finances. we just spent a pretty penny on something that we could have done without the other day. We live, We learn, we try to never be that stupid again (but chances are we will!) We work for the money we get, its normal to spurge every now and then. I think that we have our finances down pretty well, we have fair credit, and will be debt (credit card debt) free March due to our tax return. Its definitely human nature to think, "man there are people out there having it so easy using govt assistance when my family is doing so much to avoid going that way" We are all different. As long as we feel that what we are doing is right for us. I think that you are doing so great, i also think that if you know you are doing all that you can, you know that you free to apply for medicaid and the extra needed help. I had a c-section, thats major expensive surgery normally much more expensive than vaginal birth so there is no way i would be able to comfortably afford that. Just you know the option is there if you ever feel that you are doing what you can and now need the help. Dont feel that it is something bad, wrong, or something that lazy people do to take the easy way out. thats only what some people make it out to be. and then it kind of ruins it for everyone else. Im comfortable with it because i know i am not abusing it.
DeleteI dont have a blog, i tried once but just dont really take the time to learn blogging so i just blog stalk! I'd love to guest post on anything you want!
Thank You Nicole! I have been afraid to post because of how people have reacted. I love your post and your point of view. I also come from a poor background, I did not grow up with the drug abuse, but have had my share of struggles. I wish that I could say that I paid for all of my schooling and all of my childbirths out of pocket, but I didn't. I worked hard to get scholarships and worked throughout college to pay my own way, since I could receive zero financial help from my parents. After I got married things didn't change. After graduating things didn't change. I am glad that other's are blessed to find steady income. However, we didn't get that blessing. I have been without health insurance for 5 years because I need the money to feed my kids every month. When we plan to have another child, the Lord is included in our decision. But, I have yet had a child that I am not on Medicaid with. I crochet, knit, can, sew, dehydrate, juice, coupon, and know how to make a dollar stretch. I don't consider the assistance that I get from the government a hand out at all. I consider it a blessing and help for when I need it. I can't help but feel sad about the narrow-mindedness of some of the people that have posted. I hope that no one would ever have to experience what it is like to know if you are going to be homeless within the month, or if this is the month that food will run out. I work hard for what little we have and am forever grateful for the opportunity to be able to get the extra help to make it. I am also comfortable knowing that I do not abuse the system, and look forward to the day when I don't have to use it anymore, but as for now I do not have that blessing.
DeleteFor those not familiar with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and its welfare program visit this link: http://newsroom.lds.org/topic/welfare-and-self-reliance
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your honesty and I just want to share my views as well. I completely agree that it is wrong to be dishonest in applying for assistance and that it should only be used when we have done everything we can to be self-reliant. However, I don't see using Medicaid or WIC as an indication that someone doesn't have faith that the Lord will help work things out. He has helped us establish a government with a system to help those in need. I think that in some cases, using government assistance is how the Lord helps meet a family's needs. My father spent many years in school. When Mom had the fifth child, my dad was a full-time student in optometry school and was working part time, and my mom was running a daycare in our home to try and make ends meet. However, there still wasn't enough money to put food on the table, so she sought the bishop's counsel. He told her to apply for food stamps, which my mom was reluctant to do. He actually said that his instructions as bishop were to direct needy families to programs already existing in the community before offering them church assistance.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I are both full-time students, and by full-time students, I mean that the time we spend in class combined with required practice time for our applied lessons, (not counting outside rehearsals or homework for our academic classes) more than equals that of two full-time jobs. We don't put our son in daycare because I want him with family. When most of my husband's classes are done after this semester, he will be looking for early morning/late night work so he can watch our son while I am in full-time classes and still make ends meet. Then we will move who-knows-where for student teaching. I guess some people might think it is wrong for me to be going to school and trying to raise a child at the same time, but I feel like with more education I will have more to offer my family and that I will be better prepared to help should something happen to my husband down the road.
A couple of people I have talked to seem to think we are lazy for not working as well as both being in school full time. However, we are barely making it at school as it is, and we feel like if we don't make the most of our education, then we are wasting the scholarship and grant money that we have been so generously gifted. We do everything we know how to be frugal, including using cloth diapers, which people seem to assume are gross and old-fashioned but which are actually super-awesome and easy and are saving us a ton of money (we've spent less than half what we would have so far on 'sposies, and that's counting laundry detergent, energy costs, and even the coin operated machines that we used the first four months when we didn't have a washer/dryer) and by the time the little one is potty trained, it will have saved us upwards of 2000 dollars. Well, enough of the cloth diaper plug.
I didn't use medicaid to have my son, although we put him on medicaid when we realized there was no way we could afford to add him to our insurance, which was the original plan. As our son becomes a toddler, we are contemplating when to have our next child, knowing that it will be at least a year before my husband will be able to do full-time, paying work. So, we are deliberating about whether it is right for us to use medicaid for our next child. We already have scholarships and grants as well as loans, although we didn't ever use loans until we had our first baby, which is part of the reason we have no money now.
Thank you so much for your comment Banana Family. It seems as if I may not have written my thoughts as well as I could. I wasn't meaning to insinuate that people who have to use gvt assistance to make ends meet don't have faith in the Lord. If anything, I think we as humans tend to cut OURSELVES short. We tend to allow fear of the unknown make us doubt our own abilities. Sometimes that doubt makes individuals paralyzed to even attempt what seems impossible. Does that make sense? If we truly are doing our very best, I am confident that the Lord will make up the difference. As far as the actual use of gvt assistance- we live in a day and age where some people want to get something for nothing, and sometimes will do whatever it takes to get what they feel they 'deserve.' I am not saying this is you or even anyone who has commented here. But I do know that it exists. I think there could definitely be some improvements in how the program is run. For instance, people who truly need the help are almost penalized for trying to provide for themselves and their family by working as much as they are able. Their assistance is immediately cut and they are back at square one of not having what they need. I think this sometimes creates a mindset of 'I may as well do nothing because I get more that way' and it is 100% true. I believe that the gvt provides little help in enabling people to eventually become self-reliant. Rather, it creates a never-ending need/dependency.
DeleteI am reluctant to choose to use government assistance to have a child, but at the same time, I recognize that because we are going to school so that we can get better jobs, we will pay more taxes down the road, and we certainly won't be using assistance longer than we have to. If we weren't going to school, we wouldn't be so strapped because my hubby could work full-time, but we also wouldn't be paying nearly as much in taxes in the long run. That is a significant reason why the govt offers Pell grants--they know educated people pay a whole lot more back into the system. A big reason programs like Medicaid and WIC exist is to help families in critical times so that they can be healthier, make progress, and give back to the system, as well as strengthening U.S. society as a whole, not to fund people who don't want to work.
ReplyDeleteThat said, regardless of a family's decision, I think there should be prayer involved and never an attitude of entitlement. There is no one answer for everyone. I really, really admire the amazing things you are doing in your family and your faith and I think you make a lot of great points. Sorry for this long essay, I guess I just felt like maybe you were implying that families who use government assistance don't have faith in the Lord, and I don't believe that is true so I wanted to offer my perspective on the subject. Thanks for your not being afraid to share your opinion and your great insights.
You've hit the nail on the head. As long as we are involving the Lord, we can never go wrong. I am so thankful that my family has been able to rely on the direction of the Lord in making our decisions, and that we have been sustained and enabled to keep the goals we have set. Not everyone has the same opportunities that we do. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I really do appreciate knowing that there are many people who really are doing their best and not taking advantage.
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